WWDC2003 Session 705

Transcript

Kind: captions Language: en [Music] okay it's just about time so let's go ahead and get started everybody should be here for session 705 the art of mpeg-4 encoding my name is Dennis Backus I work on the QuickTime team at Apple computer we're going to talk today about the house of in pegged for encoding not so much the wise but the house and encoding in general that is somewhat of a difficult process to a certain extent it's of science but good encoding is actually an art hence the title of this session and today we're very lucky to have to I think some of the premier artists in the encoding world and especially the impact for encoding world Andy beach I go to my left and then John how from an organization from an organization called lat exit from the east so without any further ado let's get started Andy thank you very much hi everyone I am Andy beach I'm from last exit this is John owl last exit is a started as a web design and technology company but John and I are both from a film and video backgrounds quickly we turn to video on the web and interactive video as being some of the primary work that that we wanted to do Dennis asked that I I try and explain the last exit naming some basically we were working for a rather large global company got a little tired of the way everything was being run and the way things are being handled so we made our last exit out of a out of the big world and into our own company because if we were going to work for assholes we could work for ourselves so what is impact for what what can I do for you Apple Apple has a lot that they've talked about it and that's what we're all here for basically the what we want to talk about though is that it's it means impact forming standardizations and it does mean interoperability the two most important things for for us what we're going to and what I'm going to do is I'm going to try very hard today to to intro everything but then rapidly hand off so that we can actually get to some meeting potatoes demonstration of impact for encoding and then lots of time for you guys to to ask question because I'm sure that you've had encoding nightmare question problems coming up so we want to make sure that there's plenty of plenty of opportunity to get into that today we are going to discuss though the basic understanding of the impact for spec I don't feel necessarily qualified to fully speak to it but I'm certainly going to do my best given the people that are in the room today how to produce the impact for content that you want different ways to deliver that you know the different appliances out there and demonstrate a workflow for creating your your mpeg-4 so and again I'll try to make this as brief as possible so that you don't have too many history lessons today impact was was introduced as a standard QuickTime sixth broad impact for to us quick the last quick timeline of 2002 we're now seeing support for AAC audio impact for video and with the lightest three we're now getting the 3g p as well if we look at the two file formats you're going to you're going to notice something very similar in the two in the two graphics obviously they are very similar because the impact for is based off of the architecture of the QuickTime right now we're just dealing with the video in the audio aspects but there is a great deal more that's their thing to come we're patient we'll wait scalability is by far the most important aspect this is our friend Terry Tate I don't know how many of you got to see some of the Terry Tate content that came out last year the scalability designing for playback on a variety of devices flexibility and the bit rates and the frame size is that that it's going to handle this is this is the key to the impact for moving past something like an impact to broadcast architecture so this is the standards-based going back to a wide array of platforms developing for one format with being able to playback everywhere the the internet streaming media alliance if there was an out if there's an analogy out there we certainly look for the perfect analogy impact for is really the ingredients and the is ma is the cookbook giving you the recipes for all the various profiles so it's going to tell you how to how how everything should be structured and put together to meet those those profiles that you're trying to impact for is obviously got a great deal more behind it and under the hood so it's that raw source that you're going to be able to tap into the tube that we're concerning ourselves with with the encoding right now even though we'll do all of these great things but to get this started off it really is the video and the audio that are particularly important to us there's a number of ISO compliant impact for codecs out there in addition to thee into the impact for there's a lot of interoperable plugins as well like Envivio and the impeccable to get stuff out the audio the AAC stuff it's a lot less processor intensive than it has been on other things in the past so you get a lot better playback on on some lower platform systems there's a great deal more audio support and you get a lot higher audio and a lot smaller file now and for content creation i want to ask john to step in okay this I guess is my part of the absolutely beach Apple wanted to make it really easy for everybody to be able to encode mpeg-4 they really threw themselves behind the standard and pretty much want to transition you know content creation and viewing on the internet into MPEG 4 and so they gave us a bunch of different ways to create mpeg-4 content using iMovie Final Cut Pro quicktime pro you name it they want you to do mpeg-4 coming out of it so I'm going to outline sort of how easy it is to do mpeg-4 content sort of go over an overview of how the QuickTime exporters work and show you some other options for encoding okay so basically to create an mpeg-4 file you can open a video in a final cut or sorry quicktime pro you hit export appellee kamandi you choose mpeg-4 you choose a default setting and you watch the progress bar go across the screen and you end up with an mpeg-4 file on the other end it's basically that easy so I don't know how many people out here are actively doing mpeg-4 content creation most everybody went to golden those of you who are there a bunch of you who are doing content creation encoding that you don't want to go to impact for you you're not gone to mpeg-4 yet are those people here a couple okay so hopefully we can sort of convince you to switch over this if you look at the two screens the one on the Left I guess is a you know export to mpeg-4 the one on the right is the default setting but the you move ahead to the actual quicktime exporter and and it has a really neat feature in that when you open a program that knows how to use QuickTime like Final Cut Pro like after effects like I movie they basically all export video using this same mpeg-4 exporter the Apple is 0 compliant mpeg-4 exporter you create the mpeg-4 files mp4 file out of that and it'll playback on any ISO compliant mpeg-4 player you can use the Envivio plugin to play it back in real player on a pc i've been told it works in windows media but i try not to look at windows media so I unless the apple quicktime encoder is a kind of neat thing they they've made it do one pass vbr encoding so it tries you set the bitrate you want you set it to be you know 300 kilobits a second and it gets everything it can at 300 kilobits a second but then you have areas that don't need that so it scales it down some and you get a smaller file size which for an end user is a good thing the encoder is optimized for a g4 processor it doesn't fly but it's pretty fast interesting to see what it does on the dual two gigahertz g5 looking forward to that so this this is the QuickTime six exporter just like in the previous slide you go movie to mpeg-4 and then you get another window that comes up with the lets you choose your profile if you want to use you know simple advanced simple complex whatever the profiles you go in and do that you set your audio your video bitrate you can set your frame size you set keyframes you can do your audio bit rates you can choose whether they do high quality encoding you can choose whether it will actually you can't choose when use the speech codec as a music codec you can use the music codecs and then they have at the bottom it tells you sort of what kind of file you're going to produce and if you come up with settings that don't fit the mpeg-4 specification it'll tell you and it'll tell you how much you need to lower it by to get it to fit in the specification which is really handy especially when you're starting learning to do and peg for that's quicktime exporter going out of quicktime six player this is the quicktime explorer exporter going out of final cut three pretty much the exact same thing you go export movie to mpeg-4 and you have the same settings window so the same way you did it in quicktime pro the first time you did it you can now do it in Final Cut Pro in After Effects export movie to mpeg-4 same window it's seeing a pattern here imovie export movie to mpeg-4 everybody ends up with mp4 files and everybody has happy mpeg-4 compliant files alright with cleaner and squeeze you get a little more advanced control over your video cleaners sort of the industry standard compression program it's been around for years squeezes becoming as this was introduced a few years ago and it's becoming sort of more widely adopted sorensen introduced their own mpeg-4 codec so your encoding video using their mpeg-4 exporter not apples mpeg-4 exporter and you get different results cleaner and squeeze allow you to do cropping of your video so if you want to you know take out the black bars at the top of the letterbox video or you want to you know make something smaller and make something really strange frame size like 100 by four you can use that to crop it out and you can do color corrections of you know sometimes video gets muddy when you bring it into the computer so you can brighten it up some bring it into the computer video color space so that it looks good on a desktop just about as good as it would look on a television you can do deinterlacing which again makes it look good on the desktop because the desktop computer is an interlaced video its progressive those filtering to allow you to do more advanced color correction batch processing which comes in handy when you're doing 300 files that have to be due by tuesday it's a lot easier than going into quicktime extended quicktime pro and going export export and having to come back you can set it to go and if it doesn't crash then you're good to go for playback in delivery basically you can create an mpeg-4 file that plays back on everything you can create an mpeg-4 file that will only play back in QuickTime you can create mpeg-4 files it will play back on phones that will also play back in quicktime and they all have different extensions they have different characteristics and they have four different ways to go about making them and I'll go over a few of those so you have file types you've got mp4 which is an mpeg-4 movie the native mpeg-4 files extension mov which is the QuickTime file extension you can create an mpeg-4 movie with the dot mov extension that you know is still technically an mpeg-4 movie m4p is the itunes music store file but that's an AAC audio file which means it's an mpeg-4 movie 3gp playback on a 3gpp phones one day they'll come to this country and we can enjoy that but again it's an mpeg-4 file so you can play it back in mpeg-4 on your desktop playback in QuickTime 6.3 all right dot mp4 the native mpeg-4 movie extension it'll play back on all is ma compliance devices the advantage is to producing dot mp4 files are its interoperability that's you know that's why it's a standard that's why we have it that's why we encode for it the disadvantage of it or is it in specifically in QuickTime it's not a fast start movie so if you do progressive content progressive download you know when it starts coming in and there's enough of it to play it buffers in it'll start playing back dot mp4 movies don't do that you have to actually hit play and that's kind of a bummer because you can't always trust your user to hit play sometimes they're not that smart sorry users but they don't they don't always know they have to hit play and ago the movie doesn't work just hit play mpeg-4 also has sort of limited annotations on what you can do and you don't have this sort of full range of QuickTime annotations with you know go to this URL for more stuff I encoded the file this is the copyright all that dot MOV files the QuickTime extension it's meant for playback in the QuickTime Player the quicktime plugin the advantage of this obviously fast start you do a mp4 file that you then save as a quicktime movie you can author as a fast start movie on the web it's a dot MOV file everybody that has QuickTime installed is going to be able to play it as long as they're using QuickTime six with the mpeg-4 codec you have the full range of the QuickTime annotation so you can do encoded by you know full name copyright holder all that jazz you can also put in other QuickTime media types so you can take advantage of things like still images because mpeg-4 spec under is ma as implemented in quicktime doesn't allow us to do the still image stuff and all that but you can do sprites and using an mpeg-4 movie or bass sort of around an mpeg-4 movie you can make a media skin and put your imp egg for movie inside it unfortunately it's not a dot mp4 it's now a DOT mov but you still used mpeg-4 as your codex so it's an impact for movie with me okay the disadvantages you lose interoperability so it's an impact for movie but it's not an impact for me that make sense yes no God m4p you have the itunes music store format it's an iTunes protected file it's locked you know you can't take the ones off my laptop and play the money horse they're all delivered through the Apple music store the advantage of it are that it's digital rights management and so you can't take it off my laptop and play it on yours it's got 128 kilobits a CIO so very high quality audio playback the stuff about dolby labs did the testing and you can't distinguish this from the source audio so you get good quality audio you can also take that and if you legitimately bought the icing spa you can import it into iMovie you can import it into I DVD and use it for those projects which is kind of cool because you bought the file so you might as well use it wherever you want the disadvantages depending on how you butter your bread are digital rights management and some people don't like that yep the Apple music store files I believe so yes the preview files I don't think are 128 kilobits per second but the files you buy from the itunes music store I believe are the 3gp 3gp files there QuickTime movies that will playback on 3gs phones they also play back in QuickTime 6.3 on a Mac that's the standard for playback on wireless devices they've got audio video and 3gp texts as implemented in quicktime which is really cool because you can actually stream text with video and a lot of people need to do that for people use closed captioning or if you want to you know send an English file to a foreign language you can have subtitles it'll swim wirelessly do a phone it will download to a phone in play but unfortunately 3gp isn't really available in the US so none of us get to play with acting as a friend Casanova set go to Japan and sit in the airport all right demo man please have the demo machine any questions so far before we carry on with John's demonstrations everything's pretty straightforward so far it's a full application Sorenson sells a version of squeeze it squeeze for mpeg-4 and it comes with the Sorenson mpeg-4 pro codec and that is the only way at this time to encode using the Sorenson codec you can't just buy it like you could buy the old sorenstein video codec you have to buy squeeze to get the codec to encode the files so that's that's how they kind of get you to buy their stupid nuts product okay you ready for a demo here okay on with the demo basically I'm going to try and walk you through start to finish capture file to you know produce a file that can be uploaded to the Internet as a streaming mpeg-4 file so you start out you get a source tape from well I get them from clients and the first thing to do is you have to import it in the computer we use Final Cut Pro apples you know gold standard video importing and editing application it's a great program we've been using it for years so the acquisition stage as you go into final cut fortunately I have a file that's hey I reconnect okay fortunately I have a file right here we don't have to capture it but getting the file into your computer is kind of the easiest thing to mess up if you bring bad quality source file into your system you're not going to be able to encode a high quality file the sort of mantra has always been garbage in garbage out so you always try and get the files or the source tapes from your clients or produce your files using the best quality things you can get used beta SP use digi beta I really like to try and get things exported directly out of either after effects or final cut on a hard drive that because that there's no degradation of the image quality there so we've got this file which is a this came to us on a DV tape from a client it's a kind of a music video promo something you may notice lots of red DV doesn't like red so I kind of chose this clip for a reason and that it doesn't encode very well and so instead of showing you like the perfect file and this is a great and look how great it is I want to show you that you know not everything looks great and a DV file with lots of red encoded to mpeg-4 isn't always going to look great and at the end of this will see that but this lots of red has kind of pixilation and blurring at the edges of it on the source file so I'm definitely going to end up seeing some of that in my mpeg-4 file so there's really not a whole lot you can do to stop that kind of stuff especially if your clients give you stuff on TV tape so we've got it lots of high [Music] mr. local hero sammy sosa so yeah lots of high movement lots of you know strong red colors so basically you're kind of encoding nightmare file right so this was brought in final cut and captured to the hard drive so I final cut you then open for this sake of this demonstration we use cleaner 6 which is able to encode a dot mp4 file so i take my file bring it in to cleaner you can see the whole file you know you can set in and out points unfortunately this clip is actually got the in and out points right where I want them so i don't have to set in and out points and you open up you get a setting since this is a streaming file when you do streaming you don't really have a whole lot of flexibility as to what bitrate you can use it has to be under a certain bit rate or else it won't stream so you know say for a 56k modem you know you need to encode at you know kind of around 30 kilobits per second because for video because you tak your audio on there you tak your ten percent bandwidth tax on there because when you encode a streaming file you always kind of leave ten percent for the hinting and for I guess network trouble so you know you're you're always kind of locked into similar bit rates you know doing a ISDN file you need to come in under 100 kilobits per second typically for doing broadband files you want to come in a door around 300 kilobits per second a lot of broadband connections get faster but to sort of be nice for the slower connections you do around 300 you can do a special 701 sometimes but or even megabit streaming for the right connections but so what for this demo we just do around 300 so we have a setting I'm outputting to mpeg-4 the dot mp4 file if I click on this we get our handy-dandy Apple thing so cleaner actually uses the Apple encoder image I'm cropping this is a 300k file I'm cropping the image to kind of near TV safe by taking 32 pixels off the left and right 24 off the top and bottom it you know kind of gets rid of any nastiness that you may have at the top and bottom of your video file sometimes when you bring in files from tape it kind of distorts around the bottom at the top and so by cropping your video you're reducing that you're also kind of reducing the size of the image so that when you encoded at a smaller size like 320 x 240 or 240 x 180 you're getting more of the actual real video image into the encoded file then you would at you know this size and you're not really cropping out much more than people lose when they watch television so it's a kind of safe way to crop files including this one to 240 x 180 it's a kind of fast moving file like I showed you so I chose a smaller frame size because it you know it kind of behaves better as a smaller frame size there's a larger frame size you see some more pixels on some faster moving places it's all the footage was shot on television so I'm deinterlacing and a adaptive noise reduces just kind of something I leave on adjust you know typical you check the gamma up you adjust the brightness and contrast to kind of make it look better on a computer basically and these brightness and contrast settings if I go and apply them to this file and then do a preview of it they kind of make it a little bright and washed out I'm a Red Sox fan so we get Pedro and she just kind of washed out and kind of nasty so you can go in bring this settings down some you get a little richer color and you use a little less washed out to crowds a lot less washed out I don't know what that looks like on here with looks better on my screen you know encode you know 15 frames a second for a 240 x 180 file at you know 300 kilobits a second is generally going to look pretty good you know keyframe every basically hundred francs so every hundred one hundred fifty frames data rates to 300 kilobits a second audio you notice there's no way to choose your audio bit rates here but you can say 16 bits there 16-bit 44 kilohertz then stereo the way you choose your audio bitrate is you have to go back into the quicktime encoder here you go to the output thing options audio now i can pick my thing so yeah stereo it won't let me go any higher than 22 if i go to mono i can bump it up some and that generally actually sounds better than stereo sometimes depends on again the source file depends on whether it's speech or music encoding quality i always choose best 32 kilobits a second on top of my you know just about 300 kilobits per second files will give me a file that will stream over almost every broadband connection in the US so you choose apply for that setting you kick it out and you again watch the progress bar creep across the screen favorite part of my day because it means I get to go play xbox for about seven minutes for the the 15 frames per second particularly for the for the broadband stuff will work very well for for all of the video footage that you have but if you're if you're encoding any animation you may find that you're going to have to start bumping that up because on on any animations particularly things out of after effects you'll start finding that 15 just won't preserve sort of that the full range of motion so bringing it up to as high as 24 helps anything above that you tend to just start you're just packing packing on extra frames that are probably going to get lost by the by the end user anyway as they're playing it yeah like every good cooking show I already have one prepared so this is that file encoded using the setting that I had I [Music] done he got Oh that file once it started getting exciting and everybody started hitting home runs it started to pixelate and kind of look nasty and unfortunately that's you know because the bitrate that it was limited to for streaming it did that with this particular job I talked to client into letting us deliver a downloadable file because it's only a minute long it didn't produce a very big file and by being able to up the bitrate I was able to make a file that I was happier with in the thing but you know for as far as streaming though it doesn't look all that bad for you know a good ninety percent of [Music] you're even that on a computer screen is still you know pretty fun to look at yes I'm sorry can you please go into the microphone so the translator the practice between the audio kind of standard setting for that no I honestly I don't have a standard setting for anything I do basically every video is going to be different so something that you know is a sort of spoken word just talking peace you can take the audio data rate down and you can bump the video data rate up some to get a little bit more quality but generally no I don't have a specific way I you know that way I do it in for the translators he asked if I went with mono sound on that instead of stereos to get an audio quality no that was actually stereo sound I didn't go with mono on that one I did that this morning just playing around and I was generally good sounding I mean whenever i do files I wear headphones so I can sort of really hear what the audio sounds like and then I take headphones off and I play it back over my you know regular Harman Kardon sound speakers and listening to it on the speakers for gives a lot more sins than listening to it on the headphones so if you're really nitpicky wear headphones but generally people aren't going to be doing it over headphones so you can get away with mono so I have 100k version of this file as a question no but we can make one very quickly the other reason I chose this clip is because it is short take these down to get the washed-out out of it this one I'll do mono any other questions while we were watching the progress bar slowly creep across the screen or does anyone have an xbox he asked about input formats what's a good input format like i said this file came from DV so i imported it you know via firewire using Apple's DV codec but generally when we get files in on beta tape or digibeta tape we bring it in using kona SD card yes and so it's this they're either eight or ten bit uncompressed codecs and I've had a lot of like happy results with that card it's a nice product they're just put out this year a firewire interface with SDI and it uses the Kona a chair SD and the 10 bit and the 8-bit Kona uncompressed codec so I you know hoping to get my hands on that at some point to play with that because if I could you know do that on my laptop instead of having to go sit it and it you know station for digitizing that'll make you know life a lot more fun but yeah I like the Kona stuff with the uncompressed with final cut for apple introduced an uncompressed 8 and 10 bit kind of beginning codecs so people will start using that and we'll start seeing results and how that pans out that [Music] but I've also done mpeg-4 encoding where instead of doing I chose to just take the source file and do the three hundred and 100 out of cleaner here because it's faster and it produces a kind of fat pretty decent you know workflow pretty decent product a lot of people will take and do all their pre-processing to one file before they encode it and that's we've done that for a lot of files we especially did that before cleaner supported mpeg-4 so you know we would go to something like photo.jpg as an intermediate file or go to I did PNG files because they're pretty good quality pretty smallish file size so that's as an it's kind of an intermediate from where you capture to where you go to mpeg-4 I've done photo jpg and PNG as yeah if you start with a photo jpg at the largest size that you want the overall media to be so if it's a 320 x 240 or 400 300 and you just start with that as your intermediary file you'll get pretty good results we were we were very pleased with that last year we did experiment with the PNG as well and it was it was sort of a situation of to us it looked better but it was also a little slower to like to export ok this is the 100k version it's a 180 x 1 32 I think mono sound this one I believe is ten frames per second so it's going to be a little jerk here but this one actually looks pretty good [Music] Oh [Music] Oh [Music] God you got you never know [Music] haha [Music] [Applause] okay not great but not bad considering the time we put into you know encoding this file you know all of us here this afternoon just now you know it's not a bad result if you sit down with a file and you know tweak it and play with it you're going to come up with a pretty pretty good looking result and you know also kind of always keep in mind that at lower bitrate you're not going to get you know Apple movie trailer quality because this is streaming and that's not and 56 k you're lucky to be getting video did the encoders get that as a translator to get that question now we need you guys to get up two phones ask the questions of translators can't stand here the whole thing thank you briefly when when DVDs are being professionally masters ill they'll obviously do different trade-offs between audio and video variable bit rate and the size of the bit rate at very kind in the plan I'm asking whether you do for streaming or wet or whether these tools support for mpeg-4 you know if I have the major accessible you know action seek right then it goes to a dialogue portion and with music where I can't trade off between audio video or even do more bit rate of one part in the best bit rating the simple answer that question is yes but the involvement to that question is still yes but kind of a not why would you do that but it's going to take a lot more work for streaming you pretty much wouldn't want to do that because you're always going to be at a certain bit rate and you you know if you can have your talking parts looking as good as your you know high motion parts then you know that's just a benefit you're not saving anything by going at a lower bitrate for downloadable content yeah you will save especially on the file size which is what is the sort of holy grail for downloadable content so yeah you can break it up and have the talking bit encoded at this bitrate with this sort of setting and you can have the fast action bit done it this bitrate with this setting and then you basically can combine them all in Final Cut Pro and export a dot mov out I don't think you can do it and produce a mp4 a legal mpeg-4 file but you can do it all using it I think you can you can I said yes it's a pastor thank you good no you don't get transferring it's actually that's how say you do an mp4 file out of cleaner it doesn't hint it you know they have a setting for hinting but it actually doesn't hint the file so you know this file open up you know that I just did is not hinted there's no hinge track in there so what I do when I have to hint these files in is I go into QuickTime Player you open it in that you know you export movie to mpeg-4 option bless you like mr. Wagner gratefully volunteered pass through audio video so you're not getting any transcoding streaming optimized for server okay save you know this very quickly kicks out a file that is now what's got hinted track so this is now you know extremely file that you put on your streaming server and it delivers so yeah to answer your question yeah you can do it as an mp4 file you can do as a dot MOV file so yeah you can save while doing your you're a bit rate I'm making this better probably taking the audio down a notch or two with a bit rate upping the bit rate on the video maybe trying to mess with the frame rate who is obviously more frames per second at a bit rate gives you a good looking file than a less frames per second at a given bit rate because you're throwing the same amount of fit at less frames than you're throwing at eight frames a second then you're able to throw more edits and at 12 so you know changing frame rates does it if you get really kind of in a jam especially with like the Reds on that file I had a huge huge problem with and you know you can go in and try and take the red down you know which will give you a little less blockiness when those things come up you can go in and you know change the brightness and contrast a little to try and give yourself a clearer looking file as it goes out so those are kind of the next steps and then the step after that is just kind of go it looks good enough and then you deliver it I'd probably had to that may be aggressively cropping more depending on the footage the ability to if the actions in the center of the screen or if it's focused in a given area you know I'll start aggressively cropping the outside train more scrub through it quickly and see if I'm losing losing the action or the focus of it so I'm devoting all of my data to the to the core action of the clip I've not had a situation where somebody's come back and said man that was really crop instead they expend man that looks really good more questions now please are there any more questions specifically if you have a question please just come to the free to the microphone there's a couple there's one there there's one there and there's one over there sharing experiences you've had with some of the other integral codecs like a baby they hold on maybe if you could tell a choice about the experience Malaysian other than a lot of humor Matariki I honestly can't comment on that my experience with divx has been watching things that people have showed me on the computer that they downloaded from nazi sources so I've not encoded to divx yeah I've not encoded to divx for client delivery files because my clients either go through apple with their delivery mechanism and we have to deliver the files that Apple needs or they've you know clients that I you know work with on our own without Apple who you know we try and steer them in a certain direction that will try and keep them sort of in line with what Apple is doing so that the content is all going to kind of look the same behave the same and act the same way so I'm sorry but I can't dad what I'm hoping yeah yes sir hey way to go we love it can you please go to the microphone it for the sake of the translation I really want to find out what I sound like in Japanese I think we all should you mentioned the photo jpg doing my daddy one side you see any extraordinary differences when you're not coming down in a vomiting world and sudden when you start with an asian-style force intended file it has a first question in this legislation billion we started experimenting with me chief ourselves a plan like what encoder choices are between 0 there speaker compressor and couple of things can't even look at me she flies in my PhD we haven't really had experience with yet so we're we can't wait for the client that wants us to play with it because that's how that's how we most often get to experiment with it that's how we get new hardware Zoe I got something for that the as for the the a bit versus attended the the main the main difference that we've seen is on high contrast stuff so like we have one place as a production company eyeball that we do a lot of work with they do a lot of graphics based 3d stuff it's all flat graphics but it's also really high contrast ratios they like to push the envelope and you start seeing a muddy quality to your to your black levels that you don't see on you see a muddy on the 8-bit that you don't see with the 10 bit at times so so there definitely is a value difference that we've seen and I think I my personal opinion is some of its perceptual on the clients part but I have actually seen it on even just metered looks at it so so there is there's some some slight differences for that but again it's really got to be high high contrast differences and it's really mostly when it's graphics so that there's really a far-field color color value with video captured video you can't tell that much of a difference but you know the human eye is sensitive but it's not that sensitive and when you're going from you know either eight or ten bit source to you know mpeg-4 or Sorenson or you know mpeg-1 you know eight or ten bit doesn't make all that much of a difference in kind of a real world implementation there's sometimes yeah there's obviously going to be validity to almost everything so yeah but you know goten bit okay are there more questions yeah oh I'm sorry I get a doing here to try for a 402 name is a section man I can play the compression and I found us a quality of a poor choice in QuickTime quite not just 223 that's professional edition nothing on you have climate hell you enjoyed the free edition know is example then takes for education and jump improving on future well I think that if I may for the important the important part of that was it was Sorenson video three and a lot of times we consider this imp egg apples in pegs for one so I mean it's it's really it's got lots of room to grow and yeah there's there's room for improvement but i think that improvements coming and i don't see a reason not to support a standard we like we still do a lot of florence and video as well for forgiving situations i think right now we're in a we're at a point where it's depending on the the type of the type of content that it's going to be dictates somewhat what we might choose but that's that's the only thing we don't just pick sorensen video because we think it looks better we think it might look better in some situations right now but i wouldn't say that in 12 months or 18 months that that's necessarily going to be it's going to be true so she join in threes and right well if you look at a lot of the content on the actual quicktime what's on page the music videos those sort of things a lot of those are done in mpeg-4 that's because they're done in streaming and picked for and I know that because I do a lot of and so there is a transition the movie trailers and things like that you know one day mpeg-4 we'll see that's the kind of question at us you can bring up at the QuickTime feedback session what I believe is exactly we actually are in transition and on the MPEG I mean on the movie trailer slide stay tuned yeah one thing I believe it was brought up this morning sergeant then there's a standard for the quick time or the mpeg-4 decoder there's not a standard for an encoder you know so as people write better and more efficient and you know kind of nicer I guess encoders you're going to be seeing better quality mpeg-4 files you know because they'll have to play back in the same decoders that we have but as people sort of get used to riding for the format you know you are going to get better encoders so yeah it's a transition it's going to happen everything is going to happen eventually to move along the sort of mpeg-4 thing because we all you know it's like it's a standard that's what we want to get behind and push the important thing river by the standard is 10 years from now you know what the impact for files on Apple's slide was still playing 10 years for now you can't guarantee that the storms and three file is still going to play so we think that going forward is a good idea to move to mpeg-4 [Music] Thanks any other question yesterday here's the microphone their disease involved in second video games is wait a minute I'm this Dylan issues with skis involved pigs were in it is there is there is actually a fee structure to take for and we're actually lucky here at the wwc to have Larry horn even one of the sessions thursday morning at nine thursday morning at nine o'clock he is the man to talk to about fees its identity Reaper developers are on wavelets forbidden well you know their fees to use windows media as well like money they come out with immediate with a licensing structure a few months ago just like the intake for does that was one another's life yeah okay probably that's widely is the mpeg-4 handling on the city following standard this is in fact for like he said it's been out to work for us for about a year if you look back in the history of any codec or any file format we're in one point 0 will soon be in two point O than three point 0 to four point oh any other questions about encoding in general and can we please also have the slide machine thank you yes sir I was curious we're using right now and squeeze for treatment of quality at this point try and also or bashing but anything like let's say the quick to micro very kind of batching functionality that I'm unaware of quicktime pro yeah not like through Final Cut you can get matching that with Sorenson excessively one clip and you go to like store with regeneration they're way too small or smiled to multiple outputs basically yes let's say you're using final cut pro in there well Apple kind of change the thing after I handed in this presentation by launching final cut for with compressor so final cut for now comes with kind of apples compression program and I wasn't able to use demo using that in this presentation I was didn't really have the hands-on with it that I wanted to be able to talk about it but it is probably what it is possible with compressor definitely to do batches multiple Clips multiple settings it's like using squeezer cleaner without led to queue up sequences raw raw clips that have been marked and output multiple multiple versions so out of something like Final Cut Pro you you know you save everything you want to do as a unique sequence you know you do those all and then you go to batch export them and you can batch export them to not really multiple settings but you can do you know your 300 run and then you can go in and do another batch export of your 56k run that kind of deal so final cut will enable you to do batch export using the QuickTime exporter without having like cleaners cleaner or squeeze but definitely if you're in the market to update final cut for is they did really Joyce yeah really good job with that format with the annotation for the limit annotation support honestly don't know of any tools the way I've done it is I've tried putting in annotations before I hit export something in quicktime player and see if it makes it sir so things like name can go through things like that that's honestly I've only done it through trial and error there actually is a trick you could use with quicktime you can use are you familiar with ref movies so you can put annotations in a rest moving inside the rest would be called to an mp4 and energy don't and then the rest we can actually use its annotations that show up when you play the mp4 moving yeah anytime live had to do something with serious annotations where clients demanded you know the copyright in the artist website and all that I've just taken the mpeg-4 file that I put out and then do mine screens on that soon I do export in a movie to QuickTime movie and yet you pass through the video and audio so you've got no transcoding and you can put in the annotations you want to do not after the fact not really know if it's more functional of the spec that is any limitation I'll put up yes sir it's not a way of making real time and encoding form of the old things like quicktime broadcaster your roots or real time as in live streaming well that's what I can't now does is real-time encoding in right I believe it is using mpegs before but that's probably a good question yeah that's a good question for frank cass know it's like we just got it yesterday so we've been playing with it you know in our off time ask us tomorrow yeah ask us tomorrow but no I do believe that it's mpeg-4 it seems to me that apple would want to use mpeg-4 in that because everything else they're pushing his mpeg-4 it could very well be h.263 though which it is a sucio here we go as mpeg-4 yes ok sure we have something like quicktime broadcaster you can do live encoding of AAC audio streams ok as there are no more questions I'd like to thank you oh I'm sorry please if you have a question please just hit a mic don't be shy well don't hit it how it smells like at least the DVD resolution or higher I think each with different student or anything in the future there may be better encoder yes well there there's something that was mentioned in the mpeg-4 session earlier this morning as well as at the quicktime keynote the AVC advanced video coding and so that is kind of what is pegged towards the higher bitrate DVD quality files and so you know Apple of course doesn't comment on future plans but if they were to implement that that's definitely the way to go so other than that yet you just you can do mpeg-4 files at you know monsters bit rates again and you get very good quality and we're even doing some experimenting with with some some set-top box playback and enact that kind of thing with it so it's completely viable it looks very nice and it looks probably even better the future as it goes forward but I think the thing that we're liking about it so far is the file size is involved me prefer for a really heavy duty high quality are still are still very attractive but they're not huge yes and also apples implementation of mpeg-4 and AAC doesn't tax the processor very well it's optimized to run especially on a g4 so playing back a you know 640 by 480 mpeg-4 file with AAC audio plays back a lot smoother than a Sorensen 3q design music profile did because especially q design is a processor hog so it does doing the big things kind of pays off an mpeg-4 because you can throw the bitch you need to add it to get the video quality and then you get benefits because of the low processor tax so yeah it's definitely something if that's where you're looking to go throw lots of bits and mpeg-4 and see what you come up with we've actually done a lot of demos at macworld in AP where we basic comparison we show is an impact to file encoded it's a X megabits 45 megabits we actually do an impact for version of the same file the same dimension at half the data rate and you're hard-pressed to tell the difference in the two files together on video like it is I think yeah thank you we don't have future products obviously but this thursday we have a special the feedback form 011 with Frank Casanova is our directory person asked like that the other interesting situation i mean drm there's a lot of different opinions right now about drm the person to really ask that question of is is Frank Casanova in the free that feedback forum hit a square for that we're more than a guide guys that actually have to take the files in encode we don't we're not much on the product marketing side I knew I couldn't tell you and I just don't know because they don't tell me anything you even tell us yes yes compared to apples it compressor I think that at times the Sorensen mpeg-4 compressor can produce better quality videos I think at times the Apple compressor can produce better quality videos honestly it's a matter of what the sources it's a matter of what you do to it and so I've had you know similar results with the two I know that you can do side-by-side tests and come with this one does better than this one goes better but honestly at the end of the day you're getting pretty close to the same results you know Sorensen is done you know a little more extra work on their codec because it came out later than apples so you know they have a little more under the hood but yeah they're both very good very viable mpeg-4 video codecs and are there any more questions well if there's not i would definitely like to thank you guys for your time today it's been very good and wrapping up i think there was a couple of a little bit of information in offense you have a couple more sessions on in pick for you guys all have to schedule but coming up tomorrow there's some specific sessions on 3gpp in the afternoon to and and then there's one at five and then again the real story about mpeg-4 visual licensing this is the Larry horn Larry horn is the president director of a group called MPEG LA which is the MPA G+ BP thank you he is the sort of the at the forefront of in big license and pick for licensing so I'm sure he'd love to hear your feedback as well yes then again please come to the 330 Thursday session a quick time feedback for them this is the place where you've got Frank cats those who heads up the product marketing team but you also have some real key engineers on the quicktime team and and this is an incredible opportunity for you guys to tell us things and for us to hear you know tell you things what we can tell you about what we think about different things so please come well that's what you think one mark question you said it was a advanced video coding is part of the mpeg-4 specification is there probably three through thursday at three thirty as we pass anova he'll he's playing guitar he's answering all the impactful eyebrows what does eyebrows right yes explore like me being all day we can movies with bigger boobs yeah that's gonna be a good session I'm gonna be there and it'll be in a bigger room okay well thank you thank you very much for your time [Applause]