---
title: WWDC2004 Session 704
framework: wwdc
role: article
path: wwdc/wwdc2004-704
---

# WWDC2004 Session 704

## Transcript

Kind: captions Language: en and we're here today to talk about pre-processing principles and we're very very lucky to have I think one of the premier folks in this area Ben Wagoner he's from Ben Wagoner Digital everybody knows Ben Ben's been around for a long long time but we're gonna go for about an hour we will hold all questions to the very end of the session I do when we do the questions please come up to the microphones so we can can catch your voice on the recording okay thank you okay we've been let's dive in so how many people saw this session at the 2003 show that's how many of you okay it's good because I only thought I was doing this about five days ago so it's the exact same slides but the content will be new so for my own spin two things so let's it works now and it's you and there's me and it's all good that's why I am wonderful okay so today we're talking about pre-processing you think about pre-processing as everything you do - between the source frame of video and the frame that action goes into the codec so pretty simple definition here and it's so big this stage up here the focus stays gonna be on the web the video I'll mention mpeg-2 stuff here and there who who cares about pre-processing for DVD take care that I'll be talking if I'm mad about pre-processing for DVD now I have nothing about interactive who cares about pre-processing for web for cd-rom anyone doing pre-processing for high-definition oh that one yeah okay it's cool stuff we'll talk about that I spent far too much time doing some working with a damaged e5 tapes in HD last fall so so but the first half a session is gonna be be talking about slides and showing some screenshots and that kind of stuff the second half is I'm going to be doing some demonstrations so I got a lot of source Clips here that's a lot of tools here so I let you guys pick the demonstrations you guys want to see so be more extroverted among you start a planning what your questions are gonna be and focus here just hands on stuff that's gonna let you get better quality video up on the way up or your DVD or ever you're doing it so we're trying to increase the bang for the bit out of our digital media so we're gonna define for processing a little more detail explain why it matters talk about so the core techniques I'm gonna do some demos of some cool stuff in the Mac I call work over there and mainly web video but some about DVD as well and you all do more than I was planning on because you guys care about it a lot there actually some pretty cool tricks for DVD you can do these days like 704 wide encoding I'll talk about that so pre-processing I mentioned before you think of your video stream as a series of frame he's got a DV get a whole bunch of 720 by 40 frames whoo-hoo here mainly works in Powell and you guys okay so 720 why to buy either 480 or 576 tall frames you know your web video we visit 320 by 240 go to DVD it's probably the same size your video source you know we're just so you're doing everything to transform the source frame into the optimum output frame for the codec this is both the most artistic part of compression because stylistically you have to like make some final decisions often the process trade-offs that kind of stuff it's often the hardest part I mean knowing what the data you want to get the right data right you just type in the data a value you want to have knowing like what's the right luma level for the have it to look good you know that requires some thought I probably spend on a typical project it's going to kind of a high volume stuff maybe 90% of my time in the compression process arm reprocessing for challenging content just because the other stuffs pretty easy you know a codec kiwano data rate you want you know the audience audience we can tweak and tweak pre-processing if you're incredibly quality obsessive which I recommend you all become because there's too much bad web video out there so why matters it's all about maximizing the bang for the get bit you want to get the maximum communication value per you to data if possible to your end users you know and it really does matter a lot I mean correctly process video to dirty kilobits can be way better than badly process video at a thousand kilobits so you can also think of it as like you're almost like you're buying you're buying your customers more bandwidth you know by treating your bits better so you want to make sure every pixel has date of the matter is every bit as create something you care about and you're not wasting bits and pixels on things that aren't actually communicating to the end-user so there's kind of a couple frames here let's see this is scaling correctly okay so this is just from a movie trailer this is from the biker boys movie trailer anyone see biker boys you neither but I had the Train oh there we go any good yeah I don't think so that's the problem but I had the movie trailer it's often good to work with not very interesting content when you're experimenting things who get distracted by plot back kind of stuff so this room biker boys let's go with the source frame looks like pre typical interlace frame projectors kind of squashing a little bit they get the idea here and because it's interlaced you wind up having the two different feels there's motion and all that kind of stuff now if we process it correctly a couple thing we'll go from that to this and the shape of the frame should be changed a little bit all right if we take the source frame to modify it at all encode it we get that this is a hairy kilobit Sorenson 3 Pro and that looks terrible what's the word terrible because codex modern codex based on DCT is something else like that do really good with gradients but sharp edges take a lot of bits to encode so when you're using say the thin horizontal lines of fields you wind up having that be very hired in code and almost all your bits wind up trying to code the lines you don't care about it's supposed to carry the content go to the content you do so same beta rate pre-process the frame we get that instead so is that perfect now but obviously from an end user perspective that is a lot worse than that same bitrate so from the it for the end user these got a better experience no sacrifice all right and that's not really the exaggerated case and I see a lot of people trying to do this on the web and I and I wish they would not one of the reasons why the quit time is such a reputation for having high quality high quality technology is really because the people at Apple who do the QuickTime movie trailers are so much more confident those people who do the movie trailers you can find it Windows Media common real Mediacom just you know it's it's much more about pre-processing than codex look at you they give you quality so most critical feature admission tier is deinterlacing so you've seen video before you're even lies in your odd lines contained information that's temporally separated by half a frame duration so if you're 60 frames at 30 frames a second the two fields will have an image a sixty of a second apart it was interlaced video obviously obviously it's a progressive video don't have that going on at all anyone here not grasp interlaced video I mean the video people whose mainly a video person you're mainly a computer person all right does anyone not grasp interlaced at this point all right okay you're you'd be too embarrass to tell me if you were but at least I can now claim I asked so and what happens is that one frame you saw where when you have a lot of motion areas a lot of motion you wind up with this kind of crosshatch effect in areas where there is a lot of motion it looks normal computer display BEC has always progressive so if you're going to a computer device it's always progressive projectors are pretty much always progressive there really aren't very many truly native interlaced display devices that are being designed at this point we have like a legacy televisions of that kind of stuff but clearly everything is turning to droop or to progressive display device and have interlaced content is just getting converted to progressive on playback so the future is progressive this is my feeling and if you're Dilbert for any kind of web web codec you need to be interlace it because none of the web kotas we care about support interlaced mode you interlace one it just looks stupid I'm even before you compress it'll look stupid because you someone sort of baseballs I've seen one baseball you see two baseball's that have half their lines to it that's very confusing and also just because the codecs find those sharp lines are on the edges of the movie two objects so hard to encode almost all your bits wind up getting spent on the stupid part of your image and very few are left for actually making the herbage to look good so big degradation in quality of course progressive Condit doesn't need to be dinner lice because our new progressive if you're delivering on DVD with mpeg-2 because that's also a fielded medium you're just gonna keep the field same field mode so if you've interlaced source you make a DVD you're gonna keep it interlaced sarau you have a progressive source you make a progressive and take to file for the optimum results and these days most modern max DVD player will automatically D interlace on playback of inner eyes concat a lot of older systems thinning your graphics card doesn't always do it I'm not sure what the actual rules on that but it used to be that the mac DVD player couldn't play interlaced content very well at all but it seems to be a lot better more recent versions so the basic method method of de-interlacing if you will is just okay I've got my even lines of my odd lines have a different image in them well I'll just throw out all my even lines to throw out all my odd lines and then to process the image from there so if you have a 720 by 480 DV frame essentially you're just throwing out half the lines he left with a 720 by 240 DV frame and they get stretched or squished or whatever processing like any other kind of normal Photoshop cell image processing and that works the problem is you're thrown away after image data if you're doing like little small web video that's not a problem like Putin broadcaster does that internally you know if you're doing 320 by 240 or less for broadcast a huge quality drop but if you're going to go to bigger frame sizes you can actually line up with a lot of compression artifacts so you're going from because your schemes have to get stretched so if you're gonna do a 480 line out from us internally at 240 you wind up doubling the height and width a typical scaling blocky artifacts there so if you're really doing deinterlacing what you want to be doing is it what's called adaptive deinterlacing and all the tools we care about these days support some flavor after-dinner lacing lots of different names basic idea of adapted interlacing is to text the parts of the frame that are moving deena release those but the parts the images that aren't moving so there's no temporal difference in them and if something doesn't change spatially from field to field in that time you know doesn't doesn't need to be interlaced so the adapted analyzer will leave those parts alone so in a case where someone's thrown a baseball yeah you lose half the resolution of the baseball I'm sorry it was half the resolution in the baseball but you know if some sort of baseball I got a big static background you know the fence or whatever the background the fence will stay won't won't get the interlacing will remain sharp and that works well for our visual system you know you can either detect kind of motion or detail but we can't really see fast-moving detail so did I set up some occasional little guess wrong but most of the modern implementations and 99% the time is gonna give you the right result sometimes like scrolling credits you might see things some kind of weird results the day after the interlacing probably probably the worst case so try not to have scrolling credits I've actually at some times he's gone through and we implemented the credits just type them in again and we rendered them and progressive just to get around that problem now the most important thing for your NTSC folks for film content and you pal people can happily and pridefully ignore this part you don't have this problem is inverse telecine so film runs at exactly 24 frames a second video runs at not exactly 30 frames a second it really runs at 23.8 29.97 and it to those firms is two feet it has two fields in it so when film gets converted a video natella sending machine to ntsc video what happens what's called 3:2 pulldown so the first frame of film becomes three fields video the next frame of film becomes two fields of video three two three two and three to pull down and that bc works too you get your 24 images become 60 fields per second and you're good to go and you know it works about as well as you'd expect of course the motion is never quite smooth because some source frames will last three fields of video and other ones the last two fields of video so motion that would've been very smooth the beginning would have been a little bit jerky because you have that because the duration of each frame pull and play back up a little bit off and that's why you watch movies on pal I'm moving on pal horizontal motion and pans and that kind of stuff always looks a little bit smoother than the same movie would look at NTSC the way that PAL conversions does it's just the 24 frames a second or sped up four percent to 25 percent and just remains 25 frame second progressive and that's so easy and I should move to London because half of my life is dealing with NTSC weirdnesses like this but but we got to do it right and that's it's hard to do and that's why you can make money charging for doing video work so what you wind up with when you've created a file with it with this and we've seen this a lot is a file where you'll see three progressive frames and two interlaced frames repeating and I'll show you sample that in a few minutes and that's the easy way to test just go through QuickTime Player Freimuth go through frame by frame in a section with motion you'll see three progressive frames two interlaced frames pretty progressive Twitter list that's that's what you'll see and the nice thing with that is if you have a tool which hasn't in burst health any algorithm and we have several on the Mac it'll be able to reverse that process instead of having to delay sit on parameter data out it's just able to restate the original source frame so it's able to reassemble both fields into the original 24 frame a second video and that's great for two reasons one it just you know it's we don't we keep the full image data and second are able to store restore the original time base so let me out but we can actually encode at 24 frames a second instead of doing the 3:2 pulldown thing so I should get smoother motion same source on computer playback they would have had on the video playback because every frame will have the same duration of exactly twenty-fourth of a second now one complexity is what you do the transfer the film is really slowed down a 23.976 frames a second to match the way that 60 comparative 59.94 details don't matter that much but for most tools if you're encoding with using inverse tell us any it doesn't support changing time you have to actually encode to 23.976 frames a second as a magic number other tools will you change the time base you can easily switch that around and this is if you have film kind of content that's pretty much any music video movie trailer feature film primetime drama those are all going to be canta those created either in a film or the 24 p high-definition camera and if we have content that that's like that that winds up a 3:2 pulldown you absolutely I had this available the city pays off hugely in terms of Alba quality one complexity is when someone has sources it's done on video but then it's edited as source that came out as 24p that gets edited in a fashion where it's not keeping track of where the original frames were now Final Cut is trivial you just have 24p project take a 24 piece source it'll do it frame accurate and when you export it with 3:2 pulldown it'll keep what's called the cadence of the three in the two consistent however if someone just takes much to tell us any video files put some in a final cut at a video framerate project an interlaced 29.97 file you know when they do edits they're not gonna wind up putting edits exactly where the Edit would have been in the film originally and then when you take that into a tool you can wind up with issues where I just can't figure out where the frames were because it was called the cadence so instead of getting the three two three two you make it three two three two three two one three two three two three two three two two two three and kind of weird patterns that or video edits get dropped in and if some tools just completely fail like After Effects when given that kind of content other tools like cleaner guilty' pretty robustly ideally just have content where it's done correctly but cropping and cropping is a place where I see people messing up a lot especially you need you'll see a lot of web video out there well there's a few pixels of black and the left and the right or on the top of their bottom something like that the reason about that is video monitors televisions the don't show the edge of the video signal kind of my definition I mean consumer TV does not have an under scan mode you just wind up with a safe area around the edge that you know you know is gonna get left out obviously we can play back on a computer on a screen it's going to give you every single pixel the upper left-hand corner pixel is going to be shown on the screen or else if it's horribly miscalibrated because of that when you're converting from content composite for video there may be junk around the edge of the screen and never be seen on a television but that would show up wouldn't you look at the same frame on a computer and the simple thing there just to remove that crop it out and a very minimum you want to crop out edge blanking maybe you know with the thin black lines the top of the bottom left the right often DV source has no blanket at all but typically analog source is going to going to and sources being captured at 486 lines tall it's almost certainly going to have a few black lines on the top and the lower the resolution you're gonna go to the more you can crop because we shot the safe area which is because the region that's known to work in all televisions no cement Agra is going to put critical content within ten percent of the edge of the screen because they know that they kick plenty of systems aren't able to similar some have TVs that are going to either give you a distorted image or no image at all at the very edge of the screen so they're not gonna put it in critical there the your lower third text is not going to be intrude into the 10 percent boundary around the screen the actors heads aren't gonna be in there all that kind of stuff so the lower the resolution you're going to you can actually crop pretty aggressively into the safe area make it the foreground objects a little bit larger another thing you always want to do is you want to crop out letterboxing there's no point in sending in black bars to a customer for most stuff it's not for web video because you can make your web video any size you know if you leave any kind of black a bar in there from Lutter boxing you're just sending your spinning bits and spending CPU cycles on playback on nothing much better to just crop those out and call it done and also because many codecs especially low bit rates give you artifacts with sharp lines that very sharp black line of the letter boxing winds up messing things up a little bit you can get distortion on that top when you go to DVD of course you know if you're doing the DVD only supports up to sixteen by nine anamorphic so if you're having any kind of film source that's more than 16 by 9 aspect ratio at like now most times like 0.85 to one or two point three five to one you're going to leave in somewhat our boxing and that's inevitable the DVD but for web video you never need to have letter boxing in your video just reference there so the this is the five percent boundary here called action say has the 10 percent called title safe so the general rule of thumb is for the action safe area motions in this area both seen as motion anything out here is fair game we're not be presented anything and he or she will see it kind of moving but if it's text you might not be able to see it'll be distorted around the edge said the title same area the image should be pretty clear I mean you're not going to get any distortion at all theoretically so text should be visible all that kind of stuff so there's never me anything critical outside the action safe you should assume everything inside title safe is gonna be critical and you know depending on the content somewhere in here is kind of the range between where things get critical or not if you just come look at that if you can imagine with all these a thing there we go yeah it's your pointer if you look at the bounding box there if you're doing like a little light 160 by 120 Web movie promote amuse or kind of stuff you know the difference between having a frame that shows all their stuff and the drums kind of neat and you know his head but if you just crop down to that you can see his hands but better his facial expressions better and can help out a lot doesn't scaling scaling is taking what's our after we've cropped our bit our source Missy crop is excelling don't take these pixels outside this box into consideration you're doing your scaling and then the bitmap it gets change in size to the output bitmap that actually gets handed off with a codec and two things one is into especially for web video you need to make the videos smaller to play back on the web and two you're also gonna be correcting for aspect ratio in here a one thing this typically freaks out web and computer people is I start talking about non-square pixels because from the computer world the idea of a non-square pixels like talking about a square wheel but the video world all the professional video formats use pixels that are rectangular in shape so 720 by 480 it can be either four by three aspect ratio or a 16 by 9 aspect ratio but if you just looked at 720 about 480 as square pixel that actually be a 3 by 2 aspect ratio and that never actually occurs so any kind of DV file is always distorted either squished or stretched horizontally depending on the format is when you're going to a web video format that's gonna be square pixel and almost all of them are gonna be square pixel you need to be able to correct for the fact that the source is non square pixel have to make a two square pixel it's kind of stretcher to squish it in order to make sure you correct for that the basic goal is if on the video monitor there was a circle on the computer monitor and playback after compression you want them to be circle as well and that's pretty straight that's go let me see a lot of stuff or things are about stretching about ten percent too wide on the web quite common people do people figure okay what 720 by 480 I'll cut it half size it'll be 360 by 240 and there we go and I'll put up on the web and you can assume any time you ever see 360 by 240 web video file up and someone did it totally wrong because they do not get the aspect ratio correct if you have 4 by 3 source you want you want them to have your output resolution in square pixel also be 4 by 3 so 4 by 3 source a 320 by 240 would be good because 320 divided by 240 is goes down to 4 by 3 6 further before 85:12 of 384 anything where you have 4 units wide by 3 highs and it work if you do 360 by 480 everything's gonna be 10% to wide if you deal with actors very much when you make them about 10% extra 2% more fat they complain a lot so a bad win there and your circles or ovals all that kind of stuff so just want to make sure that you're we're going to a square pixel output format you want to make sure that your output resolution matches your your output in your source frame aspect ratio so two two great examples for web video they are you're coming from 720 by 480 a typical DV content you wanna have a 320 by 240 or 4 by 3 and it's a 16 by 9 source for 32 by 240 works just fine so the you're picking the output the only difference here is the asset issue of the source file the resolution is 720 about 40 in both cases and if we're doing pal these are both good numbers as well because again even pal is 576 by 720 but it's also either 4 by 3 or 60 mi 9 so you need to have a 4 by 3 or 69 and output frame size some codecs would like don't like don't like odd numbers and that kind of stuff as a rule of thumb as long as height and a width or both divisible by 16 you're in pretty good shape with sorenson and mpeg-4 and that kind of stuff in peg 2 has a few very specified frame sizes it supports or dvd stuff I'm sad you just have to pick one of those and typically you're going when you're doing a DVD in code you have to worry about this at all yours gonna stay at that you're activating a scaling at all if it's a 16 by 9 720 by 480 you're gonna go to a 16 by 9 and 720 by 480 very few cases like if you have a 70 by 486 for example in the crop from 746 down to 480 and it's really important when you move from a 46 source before 80 line source you don't scale it but you crop it because the 46 is actually grabbing 3 more lines out of the bit I mean 6 more lines out of the video signal then the 480 does so if you scale it you'll get a little bit of distortion and a little bit loss of image quality as well the world if you have a 46 source like am you know like s di caprio something like that I want to make a DVD out of it I want to crop 4 lines off the top and 2 lines off the bottom may be tempted to crop 3 & 3 because that sounds the right numbers but if you crop an odd number of lines depending on the tool you may or may not wind up reversing your field order so as the odd lines come even lines and then when you play back things particularly pigley so much better just pick four at the top to off the bottom you don't have to worry about this change is happening and else the quality of your scaling algorithm matters as well professional encoding tools we use you know a sign or bicubic kind of scaling if you just do like a QuickTime export you know for QuickTime Player going for a really big font under really small file you'll often get a little bit lower quality scaling just cuz you know most times not meant as a fresh line coding tool and the player itself compressor will give you a much better result than QuickTime Player will the exact same settings because there's a higher quality scaling algorithm okay so we're offering for web video or anything really our goal is if we're gonna scale we only ever want to scale down because anytime you scale up your interpolating that's like going into Photoshop or After Effects and trying to make something bigger than it was and I always get soft and not will often get blocky it's not it's not a good experience when you're streaking down you you maybe lose some detail but the resulting image will at least be sharp so let me kind of walk through scenario here you have a 720 by ready you're doing a doing a non-adaptive to interlace or if you have contour the entire frame is moving and if you have a case for the whole video frame is moving at once adaptive deinterlacing does not pay off at all because you know all definitely the interlacing does is it doesn't delay the parts of the frame that aren't moving the entire frame moved you're just gonna like how to limit on the two fields if we do the safety area crop have 10% that would take us down to a 640 a by 2:16 size and then we won't convert it from there to a 320 by 240 which seems like going from a 720 about 480 by a 350 by 240 should be scaling down by a lot but after we would be interlaced after we've crop we're actually scaling up vertically even though we're going that way horizontally which leaves a lot of a tricky things about pre-processing and you're working with interlaced vertical is vastly more important and tricky than horizontal us because you know you have all the horizontal could possibly want but the vertical is really where you're trying to preserve so I think it's down to like figure out what you typically gonna hard to preserve as much vertical detail as you can you know typically don't want to crop even one extra line a vertical you don't need to and then just the horizontal is necessary so when you're going to 320 by 240 or higher from NTSC or 384 by 288 or higher with pal you want to crop as little as possible you're definitely always gonna crop out ahead of blankie and/or letterboxing because there's no data there but and you want to don't want to crop any extra stuff in the safe area and you want to use adaptive the interlacing if if it's true in their life source and if it was the film source of 3:2 pulldown you definitely wanna use em vers tell us any and restore the true progressive mode and with ever tell us any even if you have a frame that's fully in motion because because it's just restating the original source frames that's gonna work for you just fine okay next is luma adjustment and Lumas basically but not quite the same thing to bring this and I recommend you read at Charles point in the book if you want to care about what the differences you instead of think about video photos into class there are filters that affect luma brightness and filters that affect chroma or color the best thinking about them separately and typically you're gonna do a lot of work Illuma for a lot of cases but typically chroma you don't really mess with it very much because it tends to survive the process a little better and also we see mainly luma so it's just that's where that pays off and the classic luma filters are contrast brightness and gamma or the level the levels filter and after effects and tools like that are also adjust luma so this is a complex issue now any if anyone's been doing in QuickTime for a while you probably have in your head you have to raise the gamma a bunch when you're encoding on a Mac or PC playback anyone doing that that rule of thumb you guys all knew all right ok you know I'm talking about all right so if you were doing all that and you didn't know about that you can not feel bad because you largely don't have to do that anymore so there are two classes of codecs and QuickTime the ones that will correct for jam on the fly and ones that won't so for example we used the Sorenson video 3 codec if you code that file on a Mac I playback on a Windows box it'll appear darker and windows box than law on a Mac use the mpeg-4 codec it'll appear the same brightness on a Windows box as it will automatically will automatic for the gamma this is confusing unfortunately so you have to like know it's good if you're gonna do that's one of the reasons I recommend it if you really if you're doing QuickTime for Mac users you Sorenson news it's a better code I come I kind of get stuff but if you really try to make a QuickTime file for a cross-platform audience the mpeg-4 codec has the advantage that you're able to it'll correct for as gamma 4 you won't appear too dark on the on PC it's also possibly use QuickTime movie alternates to make different versions of the file different gamma for Mac and Windows and movie alternates to automatically switch between them on the web but that's that's for different class and so the - I mean kind of welcome to filters there first we have brightness and contrast and these are often grouped together brightness basically exagerate s-- how different the thing is from grey so you have an exact middle gray i started that's contrast brightness just shifts the entire loom arrange it just like adds X amount even do brightness of plus 20 every pixel will become 20 in this brighter so pixel you zero will become 20 become 20 pixel pixel value 200 become 200 why people get in trouble the brightness because people say I want my video to look brighter so I'll turn the brightness up and it's actually almost always the wrong thing to do you virtually never want to actually raise brightness as a filter itself if you want to have the video seeing perceptually brighter or eating as the gamma filter or talked about next because brightness just adds adds to the entire range what was black well can't be black yeah just one unit one unit of brightness what was black of zero becomes one all of a sudden - you're black that black becomes sort of a dirty gray so if you're using brightness filters you're almost only ever needs it with negative values and the goal of using the brightness is to make us elements that should be black like you know like white text on a black background for title card or fade to back that kind of stuff you might turn the brightness down a little bit just that becomes all the way down to zero now typically we have like rendered graphics like you're rendering out from Final Cut or whatever with a black background it's gonna stay black throughout you don't have to worry about that but if you have any kind of analog source the those lumens for each pixel will be a little bit randomized so you know even even if when it was rendered they're all zeros goes out to beta SP comes back again you get some zero some one some threes and fives that kind of stuff so you can just use brightness a little bit say brightness minus 5 the 5s down to 0 the twos still go down to zero the zero stay at zero and all this sort of a noisy background becomes all the way block so you can that's a negative brightness a slight amount can really help make it crisper and that's from a vibrancy to it and also if you have a case where you have a black background that's really noisy but making it really black I mean a big rectangle above number zero over and over again it's very easy to compress if you have totally random analog noise that's actually kind of hard for a codec so it's actually one code better by doing that contrast what it does is it exaggerate its how different pixel is from gray so at a total mid gray Conner's has no effect on obviously black absolute white has the most effect on the closer you get to either black or white the more at conferences it's gonna have now a few years ago when you're doing encoding with QuickTime for the web you almost always had to add a plus 27 contrast value in order to ear blacks come out as black coming from a video source to an output source the good news is now QuickTime handles all that in the background so even so I still saying people who are still doing this and then why don't we do like a double contrast effect and they get really crushed blacks and whites so again with really clean digital content you normally don't need to add contrast anymore but that is use for analog source because again that helps push the blacks a little bit more to black and if you have a little bit of analog no he's gonna make the whites flatter into a flat or white and it'll just be seem a little more vibrant and can encode better so when I'm using these holders it's almost always because I'm trying my blacks blacker my general rule of thumb is I'm gonna use one unit of brightness for every unit of contrast I'm gonna have so if I have a choice between using a -10 brightness to get my blacks black or a -5 brightness +5 contrast the combination of plus 5 minus 5 will give me the same black effect but it'll leave whites about the same so it's in effect they won't make the images dark will use the brightness filter overall so that's let's take a look at showing some of that let's F later on but it's a rule of thumb you want to you don't want to use only brightness or only contrast to crush your blacks you want to use a combination of them and that'll leave the LUT rest of the luma range a little more intact other luminal to recur about is gamma now give them in this order because if a all truly virtuous processing tools with a gamma filter after brightness and contrast because when you laborious ly use brightness and contrast that your black down to zero you want to stay at zero if you have gamma after that gamma is not gonna leave it at zero you know the gamma filter before brightness and contrast you wind up having the gamma filter changes for the zero lands and it gets much more complex so anyone anyone out there making compression tools there alright so a gam is almost the inverse of contrast that it has the most effect that the middle grade has no effect in the extremes and gamma people say they want it to look brighter gamma is really what they're talking about doing you because that makes mid-tones brighter believes blacks black on whites whites so if you're just trying to make a video clip look brighter or look darker and you know you began the filter so the place to start now the complexity here before max by default use on gam of won't value 1.8 video but a lot usually get the value of 2.2 Windows machines use something between 2.2 and 2.5 and it's not really defined I used to be big probably ought to make different files for mac and Windows for all this kind of stuff the codecs inside QuickTime that you use what's called the tutu vu y color space will automatically correct the local gamma so if you play back the file on it'll store it internally to point to be played back on a Mac it'll just assume as 1.8 playback in a Windows machine I'll assume it's 2.5 and playback correspondingly the complexity is it's not actually reading whatever the gamma value it is if you've gone into your monitors control panel it specified a different gamma value it's gonna ignore that value just assumes every Mac in the world's a gamble 1.8 if you told the system differently it doesn't care same thing with a QuickTime with Windows it has no way to actually get the real value it just assumes it's a 2.5 al you but still it's a good thing in general and so the good news is if you want to make a single file to look at the same a Mac and Windows you use a 2 v UI codec of which impact 4 is best distribution option right now if you were using Sorenson you want to play make it make it make it sort some file on a Mac they'll play back in Windows right you do need to add about a plus 30 gamma for its lucky pinnacle across okay next guy filter we look at is noise reduction and a noise reduction is kind of like a smart blur filter now you do behind a note behind that it's a try to take out parts the image that aren't image but are noise I mean grain or you get a random analog stuff blur those out but try to keep the actual content like sharp lines text all that stuff intact and these are hard these are hard things to do I mean even the best algorithms will blur more than you want them to but it's better than just like throwing a bit Gaussian blur over the entire image the way different tools implement this vary a lot you got you know some have like things whole grain killer green suppress which can work for sometimes in no ways I've also temporal noise reduction folder varies a lot the thing is if you have source that's got really bad analog noise you're pretty much host these filters can take you for a mediocre for like bad like nearly mediocre quality but you're never gonna actually be able to get good quality output by using noise reduction if it's noisy it's better than nothing but it's much better to have clean source to begin with and you can't ever fake a clean source like you can never make high-definition for real a lot of standard F I suppose Audio normalization for the most part audio does not require a lot of pre-processing especially if it's already brief it's something that's mixed for TV or DVDs like that it's gonna encode pretty well for the web at reasonable bit bit rates the one thing I want to do is audio normalization if you have a clip or the overall level is just too low what normalization will do they'll find the loudest single sample and then it'll either raise or lower the overall volume keeping the data damn Macarena intact but just changing the overall amplitude to specified value and typically a - 3 DB is good for most modern codecs some QuickTime tools used to default about - 6 DB because the old queue design one codec had trouble with things that are near peak but you don't care but that anymore so minus 3 is just fine these days you don't want to go all the way to 0 DB peak because that will why because there's some codecs so that'll just you could it's an approximation you can wind up having to try to give a like a digital value that it's not possible to express with a codec which can give you little audible distortion so it's a good rule of thumb another - 3 dB you might use some other filtering and typically these are kind of going beyond the realm of audio processing and pre-processing off - like you know you're doing some kind of cool audio work to clean up bad source audio restoration stuff can put the compress doing a compression basically making the quieter parts the audio louder or will even the loud parts loud you're targeting a 3gpp kind of playback devices playback in a cell phone you know subtle dialogues not gonna be audible for most people so often let me the dynamic range there can help a lot notch filters we've got like home and that cuz if the background can work quite well steel annoys removal your compression tools are kinda have this kind of filtering in there for the most part so if you have Clips need to apply this kind of stuff with you're diving into some kind Pro audio tool ooh I got a cube thing like that so that's kind of the wordy overview and now let's go over to the block up here we do that that didn't look promising oh okay so this is the interactive portion of it we got about 36 minutes left here I've got film source I got into you see I'm not even a couple pallet clips here I got every compression tool known to humanity I could anyone have like a pre-processing kind of project they're working on with a picker tool they want to see how to do but that guy stuff someone got a question for me heavy to demonstrate these techniques some of the something we've got microphones you're good if you go to the microphone back there so we can get it recorded in audio hi I'm Scott Thompson from new tech and I just like to see some DV source maybe oh we compressed down to maybe 320 by 240 okay you have a picker tool used for dena processing defin particular i use media cleaner once in a while if I do that hunter okay like that sure we can daven it wait a minute cleaner this cleaner six I know anyone from discretes been around of the show at all we haven't had a new it's like a beta of cleaner 602 better year old now but that's the last thing we saw that actually had a real release of cleaner even a point release for every year now so I fear clinic cleaner may be done but you know it's still useful a lot of stuff they have a pretty good design for ramp reprocessing off this clip here that it's called NASA move it's a pretty interesting one here kind of a little bit here so this so this is okay it's a couple things to point out here so this is a DB file and it has blanking on the edges here see the little black line there a little bit and we also litter boxed so first thing we want to do is we want to be able to crop out that stuff yeah so this is a for birth resource you get if it was boosted just essentially about 480 we get an image like that I want to send what cleaners the late let us do we tell it to okay show to me as the 4x3 source clip and i'll show it to me correctly if it's 69 you can flag i like that as well I want you to sign up okay first thing I'm gonna do is just do is crop it a select crop filter here I I need you here this grab it and draw a box yeah it's good to go now one thing you to watch out for in Clips isn't if they come from source from a lot of different source files your you often need to wind up scrubbing through it and looking to see this any other frames that wind up not matching now okay looks good there yes sir seems like some archival footage often you'll have things where it's the free mail vary a little bit those look good there's a spatial Oh see right here in this frame even though all the other things are good it's actually some little bit more a letterbox in this frame here there so I should have to go in a little bit a little bit tighter here well they have to watch out for I'm gonna see this monitor errors often the very edge you see a little bit of a distortion hey see that the first line of it is a little bit whiter than the line before it see you so it's you don't want to crop it at least one pixel from the top and bottom just to get let's have the distortion range look a little bit funky your top and bottom lines are off a little bit off so here we're about cropping about one or two lines from the start of it and that's grabbed us our whole thing there well pause I get it wrong [Music] alright so um cropping and constrains that didn't yeah he also just do a 69 if you want if I was going that to DVD I would definitely do a 69 but I don't know if this is quite yeah that's my system and I there yeah he knew their way so in this case if you wanted if you know you want to output to exactly 16 by 9 you can set in that value or also you can even do a custom aspect ratio if you happen to know it's a pickerel thing this keeps me at 69 and well we couldn't I just do it off like that and let's Casey one depression cropping out a lot of other frames so we don't need to the most compression tools only let you do global settings it to its setting overall if you really need to do a lot of tweaking per thing I tend dive into After Effects and do all those cultures there or to if I need to like do different processing upper frame basis twins it being pretty labor intensive and expensive but you know so that's how we set the crop up and the process inside is pretty straightforward let's just say I'm making a I just say the interlace I want to try to the adaptive mode on that gives me the deputy interlace image size to trim by 240 like that clear by default has a sharpen filter candana you do not want to you to start on filter for most pure processing sharpen will sharpen makes a little crisper before you encode it but sharpen adds noise as well so typically give you more artifacts on playback because it'll tend to exaggerate any noise as well as maybe I do sharper so always leave sharpen off you daft noise reduction unclear is pretty good you can leave that on also accent how these filters here look at gamma brightness and contrast and the default settings are somewhat random they were designed for cleaner 5 and clearer six is a different processing mode crowded as videos and actually you wind up having different values okay was a great little utility you get with Mac OS 10 utilities folder I use all the time for this kind of stuff which is called digital color meter I just you got Mac OS think it's from 10.1 on is just comes free with the OS okay and what it does is you just point at a place in the screen it will tell you the RGB value at that point and cleaner really ought to incorporate this built into it be very very useful but it doesn't so we can do here is we just go over here and look at the bit our values and see how they look and like that stuff and we can say like this video pick a frame like this get a preview window all I cannot change it - oh this preview under here hello did I not time oh I didn't apply it yes they're not bees and cleaners much lately it's kind of it's like so the dominant tool my career for a long time was getting so buggy these days is kind of hard I wind up as I used to here well I hit apply tonight maybe one of the bugs I was talking about yeah sitting into volt alright it's still showing us through alright okay it's just not keeping that setting for some reason oh I know is constraint because it's always a king if he's got a crop said anything so okay are you doing now there we go okay so this is where you can pick up some of these black level issues so they'll put us here you can see these values here actually aren't all the way down to zero and our goal is you want to have the black levels down to zero let's mention before i'm he's gonna show how we'd do that a little bit up so these are the default random settings clean i will turn those off so by default we get 8 to 9 and that kind of stuff and a good starting point i tend to use is you know minus 5 and plus 5 Act is not a bad starting point we put those values zeros and twos quite a lot better yeah maybe I'll tell you it's 8 and the contrast of 8 and a couple ones and zeros around okay let's go la 10 - guess they're a couple a couple green of values getting getting out of there but it's close enough to live with it I suspect they're doing that kind of processing they're your blacks good do you also want to make sure that your whoops that you're going back to and making sure it's going to look at further frames because cleaner and other tools I compressor only give you a global setting oh did you forget my crop now just killing me here all right we're not going to invite you for tea at all of course we're doing 60 mine is actually 320 by 180 yeah cart value there confused myself by giving you a through 240 okay all right that's for sure there and before and after here the a/b slider shows the effects of image processing so alright there was seen the effects of having thrown in that brightness and contrast it looks a little bit darker overall ideally if you're doing image processing it shouldn't feel like you're modifying the video it should feel like you're kind of peeling a layer of grime off it so it's the effect you're trying to go for it shouldn't seem overly dark and that kind of stuff so before and after too bad it's a little bit darker he's a little more richness to it the original video and kind of weird black levels all right looks pretty good like that and then so I'm pretty happy as in my ends there and then the audio side I could just do a normalized 90% and 90% and cleaners about minus 3 dB they're good to go and that's pretty much all we need to do to do a pre-processing in cleaner so did that look like what you're talking about were you were you need any questions about that or specifics there all right cool they pushed over there yeah we are we are aware of the normalized function and cleaner I'm also aware of it in logic for example but we have a lot of video coming in to Final Cut Pro and our users do not really don't have to handle normalization are you against Mecca right there question microphone yeah are you are you aware of a plug-in available and audio plugin for normalization that we could plug into Final Cut Pro hmm because we have a lot of dirty audio coming in and video our users don't really know how to handle normalization manually I can't imagine that someone hasn't done one of those but I can't I'll the top of my head a more does anyone know of a normal ice plug in for a final cut say that again oh waves yeah waves but is it really a normalized plugin you know like as simple as this because waves is usually 2 2 too many variables yeah yeah you can do it you can definitely do a pure basically you're doing it a normalizations like a compression we are not touching the dynamic range at all effectively look at the a so if you have a compression filter that you can deactivate it has a slider for how much dynamic range you can adjust until it - you leave it alone tell you the same effect yeah no wait waves does a good degree set for years l1 okay is it you are out of your units okay it's also pretty critical to just take the audio into another audio tool and just we process them then important if I look out of that point - that's I'll do I mean something simple like I mean the free version of peak that comes with Final Cut it's bundled with Final Cut is concern I do a normal ice just fine so yeah Final Cut you have at least yeah hi my name is Daniel Benner University of Texas I recently had a project where we had a bunch of source video that was shot in 1985 on s-video and I wanted to know if you could suggest some best practices for importing that in in a way that it can be edited and final cut without having to render all the time okay so you've got which are the s s VHS tape I mean it's pretty straightforward I mean Ivan I'm in love with the Asha IO systems you know they have like a for a grand or so it's a they have leaves like a full one that is SDI and Anna logging by $1,000 when I think we just that's small this is analog so you get an i/o it'll take your s-video and put your XLR audio saver if you have a professional or industrial SHS deck like I've got a AJ five five five at Panasonic and that's a device controllable XLR audio out s VHS deck plug that certain the Vyasa it'll put the firewire and if I into your Mac from the final cut and it'll be able to just you know do view device control Tim but uncompressed capture balanced audio off your SP just tape into final cut and then you know you just GFI shall we have multiple real-time effects on the g5 since off we're from that capture using the uncompressed codec would it be bad to take the s-video from us video deck and then go into the back of a DVD deck and then capture via firewire that one yes yeah because the DB codecs on 25 megabits uses only these a very limited form in the colorspace DB is a fine acquisition format so I mean you're just like shooting things in the world with DV it's fine but you try to convert anything to its or got an analogue noise in it or it's got motion graphics that kind of stuff the DB codecs really not robust enough to be the second generation of anything so I mean yeah you can do it it would work you get video out of it but the right I'm talking about give you a substantially higher quality and also if you have a good VHS tape and you have some good time base corrector and all those analog things which most of us unfortunately I will forget about come back into play right do good again good analog which means you spend a bundle on cables and rock camps all this kind of stuff so but it's not too bad I mean I mean in the audio system actually I'm very pleased that it's like you know a straightforward cheap you can plug into a laptop all that kind of stuff set up for do that kind of work does that convert it to DV I know it'll you can if you want to convert was just I can leave it as uncompressed 8 bit or 10 bit it can refer to DV 50 care to de'vide db25 okay whatever you want and motion JPEG I Sam thanks great hey fonts panel in Russia yep you mean i i'm using i'm using a cleaner time but concerned about its future yeah what kind of product equivalent product would you advise the to actively unearth the products that I've acted engineering on them for Mac quick encoding tools I'll see of apples the compressor which I'm not I'm not sure if it's compressor is pretty good for some stuff it's got some limitations a capability to pass VBR with Sorenson and cody and that kind of stuff and what as the 2 6-4 codec becomes Dhamma and QuickTime over next year I would expect that compressor will be relatively more useful because just it'll have access to a codec that's a lot more competitive than it does right now the sorts and squeeze was a major major new version that's been analysis just when Ana beta should be in a few months squeeze for peer job holder tool really aimed squarely at the cleaner space and the source is working hard to make that work and they've got two six four or I think got all kinds of stuff in there and that should be it looks probably promising as well and a few months and there's a pop where's compression master that's out now there's really good it's mainly the mpeg-4 tool does really it could make great mpeg-4 inside Dutta movie files and mpeg-4 files also 3gpp files for doing tapassin a lot kind of stuff if you want to use the mpeg-4 codec and almost a flavor of it the compression master is my favorite prefer tool right now but if you want to make really good MOV files cleaner still the best thing out there he's got some unique features only it has as far as yeah well you know peak data rate for to capacity are you can automatically you do an audio sync fix for for be frame content that kind of stuff so I mean I still you I expect as long as I need to create a legacy cleaner content I mean look see quicktime content I'm gonna keep on using cleaner for keep it around on the harder every years to come even though it seems unlikely at this point I'll ever see any more releases for it or even bug fixes I don't know I'm you know discrete says it got some engineers working on something related to cleaner but they won't say what or how or even which version of it and that kind of stuff and the beta of 602 came out almost a year ago and they have even like released it for real yet is still in beta for all this time so and as required for panther compatibility so we're talking about tiger now so it's not a very good time so thank you yeah so we're getting there i said a comment about the VHS to DVD so the early sony decks and things and have head-to-head transfer some cable lists and it has TVC and some other things on too so actually does some sweetening up their signal as well yeah so are there ways you make it work with TV just the DV bitstream itself I don't I mean if you're on a budget you need just in you the video in any form it can work but if what you cared was really high quality that's some limitations I actually got a project here called via my infamous VHS ugly file which I decided like what is the worst nasties analog garbage you can imagine which was hard ice I had some some guys like a fourth-generation EP mode via chest up so well as bad as you could possibly get to dimension so a problem too because like you know about like you know have like a personal s VHS deck and if you can i play SP mode takes you know no one ever uses a professional LP modes i don't like go find actual VHS deck which i hadn't used for years you know drag it down my basement and catherine and compact capture i've composite just to make it extra special here so uh i can talk a little bit about what we can do to make this thing better which is not a whole lot let me think here so yeah it's bad clip isn't it it's got some good music with it too one thing about videos important to realize is that no matter how bad the frames are the motion is always really good even it's a really bad home edition s-vhs thing so the thing you really do to try to like do it is we have bad quality video do you like this is make the frame size small keep the frame rate high because you've got sixty fields a second of motion here so now set because 32 by two 40 60 frame a second you have video out of it cuz that'll give you you know you trick it down a lot it'll help average up some of that stuff so let me let me drop into After Effects I'll show you what you could possibly do to make this interesting Club and After Effects is overkill for a lot of commercial stuff but you know you need to do like weird kind of video processing stuff it's still kind of like it Swiss Army knife tool and the new version is pretty good here and actually comes with the synthetic aperture color finesse plugin which is kind of beyond pre-processing if you need to do like you know take set that a shot badly and really clean it up it's a really wonderful plugin it's also available for final head I believe they're not bundled so just open up this horrible piece of tripe here okay so yeah question its rumor no son I don't know I think there's a lower feel first so when you're working with content inside After Effects preserve edges best quality only means it a foodie interlace so not clear defined thing but here if you are using a tea for pre frosting to phone app that turned on you also do 3:2 pulldown removal in a very nasty UI here we have to like guess it and 6 5 was better in the past but after effects totally cannot deal with any kind of thing with the Kayden's break so you have a 2 hour movie and there's like one field that's off and order the middle of it it can't do inverse telecine so each the entire clip you work with has set up perfectly straight key and star the entire thing you guessed it no one does know me either all right um you see some like that so let's say I was going to make a you know try a really small version of this you know I can't make a sort of the 640 by 480 timeline so that bad place to go now one neat thing you can do is I can actually make a composition that is 60 frames a second if have interlaced source video that's it 2009's have an interlace that's actually you know 60 fields a second of data and I can make 60 frames progress it out of that on output so orally 59.94 like that so when I've done that I'm actually able to produce a help of this relief all the way there so if two weeks can handle doing things in after-effects there is you can do it a full res in the comp and then you do a nested comp at the final output resolution or set it on the output resolution it's often most informative to actually make your cops eyes you want to have it out you know so if you're making a look a little web video thing like that work it at the lower size you just need to go through and obviously deal the scale right and since Cillian attrex is kind of weird is you don't really can't way crop per se you just kind of scale up position it right to view the crop you want so that he's not good enough we'll do 51 like that another thing about this clip is got what's called tearing and VHS mode which is all this stuff at the bottom was kind of it was kind of not all to an angle here but just when you play back others look stupid she got to you when you BJ's Micropolis step out of the bar to the bottom so I'm gonna zoom in a little bit here so 1500 left so what is goes yeah pretty straightforward and we'll get something like that the feature that people don't steal enough from After Effects is the important levels filter this is this is the probably the best visual processing filter the history of humanity here because it gives you an integrated histogram and black and white points so you have a video clip that's not all the way to black or all the way to white you're actually able to just see the histogram like okay this clip here it is full range it's not a problem but you can okay look at my mid-tone you know like okay well I will actually be like there whatever if this panel of noise they know I don't like to be there all that kind of stuff it gives you it's a nice feedback this here's full rain so it's like needies it much but and generally for kind of video like this often electric am i can do you world a good cool 1.1 in gamma is a little more presence you know it depends the clip here so yeah we can there now yeah it was really a little you can do on this I'm gonna be get looking good but actually hundred percent size they're a scaled-down it isn't that horrible it really isn't as horrible as you could imagine that's got to do preview there and the one print you do have a lot of difference per frame terms of temporal there's a temporal noise there's because the varies from frame to frame you can sometimes get some better results by using you got the pro version you remove green filter some kinds of video noise I can actually do a decent job with you know I won't belabor you the incredibly complex edits that's the things you can do on it then you can see inside the the preview box there and get a little bit a little bit less effect there and get turn anymore and the word that really comes in is because grain is ran if every frame or using the grain suppression of filters so try to find errors that are totally different for him to frame and suppress those leaving with the actual underlying motion is and again it's already be perfect but it'll give you a little bit their quality and take out some of those errors there and so if you have and this election will give me a full 60 frames a second output so if you do have you know that that old content try to put it on the web emphasize the frame rate because you've got so much frame rate and just shrink it down to the point where the artifacts content it's kind of disappear or you can but also I mean it's always gonna be garbage in garbage out you know for really bad source you could make it again you just make it less bad even mediocrity is typically out of reach unless you're gonna go in and rotoscoped whole thing I mean really you know creative just use a source to paint over effectively he's the only way to do it a lot of cases okay next question there yeah yeah the microphone hyebin's cliff wouldn't me just a quick question you mentioned mpeg-4 a couple of times but will you meaning impactful part two there and yeah I parlous right now as I say mpeg-4 I mean a before a part - and if I mean in pay for part 10 I'll say 264 they'll probably change over time as kind of in pick 4 becomes a not five years from now when we say in pick forward and mean - six for this part - never we got all that much traction so clearly the entire impact for industry is gonna be waiting for 264 and that's gonna be the mainstream application of it because it's just so much better but today QuickTime is only a part 2 part 2 simple so that's what we're using for stuff right now thank you I didn't get the fuels right there let me turn this off because it's distracting when I play back video when I'm frantic yeah there were the real you know one thing that bear mind is that the the impersonal deal Apple people quick times built an impact for encoder is to put it charitably more speed optimize the quality optimized so even if you want to make a dot and pick for file or MOV file mpeg-4 codec there are other tools like squeeze and compression master they'll give you a lot better quality at lower bit rates then apples encoders even if people have had kind of a questions about mpeg-4 is compression quality there are other tools making compatible bitstream they can give you better results both squeeze anchor pressure master have a to pass encoding mode you can tell it to go really slow on a really high quality well the QuickTime encoder is really tuned is like you know massive actions in real time real time broadcast kind of applications and works great for that but it doesn't have a slow and sweet mode which some third-party products do so you can make a quick tank to paddle in big for file a lot better quality a lot of the stuff we see out there right now you just use the Apple exporter okay who's next someone's got someone I'd have to do some demos otherwise it wouldn't have any self and compressor or oh here we go okay so an example of using a mass to do some some specific compression where you're masking out a mask like you mean example yeah maybe I'm not saying that correctly but to to to soften a portion of the image field and it compresses yeah almost winds that it's almost never worth it in the end because he turning a compression II of multiple frames I have a single images I mean you news like pacing you the motion tracking to like yeah I honestly haven't had a case of the video or that was worth doing for years because typically any kind of error in is gonna be overall I mean some of me think it sometimes I thought I'll do per frame processing actually what I'm asking for it a good example might be if you had a video of a talking head and they shot it against a moving background like the leaves blowing in the wind or so it's a constant shot you mind you might use After Effects too yeah masks the person out and and blur the background so it looked like it had a shallower depth of field or something yeah I mean you do that like you would do it in After Effects play yeah well actually that effects I mean I I did have a case in Lobster we're doing this high def project where I needed to worry damaged e5 tape so that there are some some they actually had a macro block or sometimes I don't like the so like you'd have like a 69 16 block of the frame where the video wasn't where we still only one fuel to be attacking the stuff and actually the a6 like actually got a rotoscope some of that I mean she can go in and hand paint and uses a clone stamp tool on a per frame basis and it's surprisingly powerful I mean like six five on a dual g5 I mean you can do really good real-time rotoscoping kind of stuff with it so that's definitely in there I'm sure I kind of I know yeah I used by person um after effects a lot so I don't really do much mask stuff yeah kind of a question is wondering if you could pontificate on the elephant on this as as content creators transition to using HD and much higher quality cameras and acquisition like the Varrick am working and doing for progressive square pixels you know giving us much higher quality content to start with will will we be out of a job pre-processing in HD is much easier than for standard definition because HD is always analog I'm sorry alloys digital and analog is half the problem pre-processing and non-square pixels is a big issue as well and DV is almost always square pixel annele which makes it a lot easier but you still got some complexities you know there's converting from 720 to 1080 computer playback I mean everyone who's showing off hi-def could always pick base playback today it's all 24 P some you know if you have 60 i source typically have to get converter something like that today's codecs don't do a great job computer code under a great job at interlaced content and impact 2 will work but takes a pretty beefy machine in your real time in peg 2d interlacing at computer screens to 60 people playback Andrew it's a nightmare so I still affair you need to do with it - all sometimes get a little bit of letterboxing you know if it's more than 16 by 9 aspect ratio it's just occurred to me that that the difference between what less experienced user might get from a compressing a really high-quality source from HD down to web with you know default settings and some of these tools versus what we might be able to get that differences is much less with much higher quality yeah so are subtleties there's also HD in s to use different color spaces para mine so ACS is the seven use of the seven or nine color space and st and almost low computer playback uses 601 so you actually have to do a transform in there to get the colors to come out mashing perfectly accurately and that's handled transparently in a lot of tools are not always you have to get that right is an issue I know a nothing happens is typically you are gonna a lot of HD for play gets compressed horizontally same you can code a 1440 by by 1080 just to make little bit easier to do yeah I mean HD HD is masley easier to compress than standard def in the real world you seen a lot more computer for it but you know that's that's coming along as well but yeah it's I mean it's amazing to me I mean part is that I only working hard stuff pretty much but I mean so I've had some HD project required a lotta pre-processing but kind of in general yeah he's gonna like drag it in and say go when you're done it's it's because I want it is almost always progressive but it is almost always full frame and square pics all that kind of stuff